Isa ito sa mga tanung na paulit-ulit na tumatakbo sa utak ko nitong nagdaang mga araw. Because there was a book that I used to read and one of the topics talks about sin. How it entered the world, how man became contaminated by this deadly sin. At ang pinakatalagang tumanim sa isip ko is yung topic na nagsasabing it was God's plan allowing sin to come. Yes God really allowed sin to happen so that His greatness and Godness would be revealed, so that there would be a great plan of salvation, so that man would acknowledge Him not just as a creator but also as a God and loving Saviour. Because if it was not God's plan for sin to come, ibig sabihin e hindi N'ya kontrolado ang mga bagay-bagay. God holds everything, no one and nothing left unhandled.
Ikaw sa tingin mo bilang isang individual, naniniwala ka ba na kasama talaga sa plano ni God ang mahulog si Eba at Adan sa kasalanan ng sa gayun e maihayag ang kanyang kadakilaan at pagmamahal sa'tin? We may have our own different point of view about it and how to accept it. We do not have any idea what's on God's mind right now but certainly He knows what's on us!
hey YUCK, its really nice reading your blogs. i pray that more and more people will read this.
ReplyDelete"Ikaw sa tingin mo bilang isang individual, naniniwala ka ba na kasama talaga sa plano ni God ang mahulog si Eba at Adan sa kasalanan ng sa gayun e maihayag ang kanyang kadakilaan at pagmamahal sa'tin?"
my take
hindi kailanman plano ni GOD and mahulog si Eba at Adan sa kasalanan ng sa gayun e maihayag ang kanyang kadakilaan at pagmamahal sa'tin?
GOD never planned for us to sin and GOD doesnt need us to be sinful for HIS glory and love to be seen.
it was us who choose to sin and go against GOD. adam and eve was given a choice then, to obey or not to obey. but they did not obey GOD. the same in our case, at times we choose not to obey GOD.
now you might ask, then why did GOD gave us this choice if it will just lead us to sin? that's what you call love, as a FATHER, HE never want to control us and HE still want us to make our own decisions.
unfortunately we decide and choose to disobey HIM. but that doesnt stop GOD from being GOD who is GLORIOUS AND LOVING.
example. GOD said to man, if they eat that fruit they will die. but did they die right away?? they did not, that's MERCY, that's LOVE.
then we have JESUS who paid it all.
GOD never planned for us to sin, but HE does not depart from having plans for us if we do sin. If plan A does not work because of our sins, there is always plan B. that's GOD eh, thats what you call the GLORY OF GOD.
as what John Piper wrote: God can turn worst things (result of our sin) to something good, for HIS glory and for HIS love. (follow the link below to read more about what am saying)
Uy Third thanks for reading our blogs and it's so nice to have you here. We are also praying that more and more people will read this blog same as yours. You know what you have a very good point about this particular topic and we really appreciate it so much as it really gives me more sense about this topic "did God really allow sin to happen?". I was also wondering about that one before, like why on earth God will use sin just to show his love and greatness? MAybe I do not have the right answer or I do not know how to figure it out. It had been running on my head over and over again. but anyway We know what kind of God we have and how wonderful and mighty HE is. I am very interested in the book you are talking about, the I 50 reasons why Jesus died for us. Can you tell me something about that like who is the author and if still available in bookstore? hehehe it sounds so nice to read and will give us more info and alot more faith stirring passage. Thanks!!
ReplyDeletehey napadaan lang po. reply lang po kay third. maganda ang sinabi mo sa iyong comment it was very uplifting. but still i have questions in my mind. Can you tell me what would have happened then if plan A did work. I mean if Adam and Eve were not deceived by the devil, how could we know Jesus or God?. so far sa pagkakaunawa ko adam and eve they did not know who God was during their time all they know was they had Creator. ang alam ko is nagumpisa lang tumawag ang tao sa Diyos after na nung ma-fall sila sa kasalanan way back in the book of Genesis.
ReplyDeletehey YUCK,
ReplyDeletewait - with what you said,
"like why on earth God will use sin just to show his love and greatness?"
i just have to clarify, in the first place,
GOD never use sin just to show HIS love and greatness because HE is pure and HOLY. now GOD, because of HIS greatness, love and mercy to us made HIMSELF sin - JESUS, fpr us to be reconciled in HIM.
simply put, GOD can turn our mourning (result of our sin) to gladness (salvation and reconciliation)
ayt! there.
John Piper is someone i look up to as a writer and as an expositor. he's really good am telling you. jm, jr, and i really enjoys reading him. praise GOD for his gift. john piper is the one who wrote Desiring GOD. i think 50 reasons is already in the Philippines. My dad got books from John Piper ministry. btw, my dad had a talk with William Walsh, the international director for outreach - or something - of Desiring GOD ministries, and they are planning to have DESIRING GOD conference in the Philippines on 2010. whoohooo... excited. to know this ministry more go to desiringGOD.org
there.
hi me!
honestly, i dont know the answer. hahaha. seriously, those things like what if and all the sort not being found in the bible, i leave it up to GOD's wisdom. ok un! at least when you get to heaven you can ask these things to GOD HIMSELF! :D
but i think ha, adam and eve and the paradise knows GOD because they are in GOD's presence when they are still in eden. you see when you are in the presence of someone, you will know that someone right?
and besides, if, like what you said, they know GOD as CREATOR, then they must know the CREATOR as GOD! because, they will see themselves helpless because they cannot do what the CREATOR does. right?!
but seriously, am just working on logic here. its not actually written, or if it is i havent read it. sorry.
i'll end with this verse
"The secret things belong to... God" (Deuteronomy 29:29).
so chill lang. again, if you have questions to GOD that no one can answer just cling on HIM. then you will see when we all get in HIS kingdom, we have something to talk about with GOD! ayt!
see you guys pla on the 19th is YCA interfell. ayt!
its good to ask questions because you find answers! seek and you shall find....
GOD bless everyone.
hi Third this is Robert of the YUCKies who wrote this specific blog. oops Im sorry for that. What I mean was that question (why on earth God will use sin...) WAS before but not anymore. it is more clear now since the first time you put comments.
ReplyDeleteregarding the Desiring GOD conference.. exciting yan maxado atleast diba GOD has already provided a way for us to have this conference in Manila. Thanks for the info ha.. galing talaga. yung book pala na 50 reasons e wala pa dito? so ikaw pa lang ang my ganyan? astig ha...but I will ty to look for one at the bookstores..
excited na rin ako sa conference na yan!!!!!!!!
hey robert,
ReplyDeletehave i met you in YCA gatherings? i'll see you soon ayt.
my friend actually got 50 reasons but not 50 reasons on cover, the cover title is The Passion of Christ, but the content is 50 reasons. it was published by CGM, yata. the publisher was not able to get permit from the author that's why they published it in different cover.
walsh actually went here also to investigate on that, not to arrest them but to grant permit to publish John Piper's book. see the conviction of the Holy Spirit in the heart of Christians?
but the original book 50 reasons, hindi lang ako ang may ganun dito. my dad got enough copies to distribute it in Pastoral Training Course Conference last summer. so pastors and church workers who attended that conference got free books of John Piper and other authors.
hey, hmmm, if you want an excerpt of 50 reasons go to this link
http://third0.multiply.com/journal/item/5
enjoy knowing GOD more!!!!
and congratulations with your blog!!
I definitely agreed with what third said, very well.
ReplyDeleteAs I can remember the first time I read this particular blog of our's(I'm one of the YUCK'ers..btw,thnx to Robert for this)
I personally disagreed with it.
Well, I think third has explained it all and that is exactly what I believe in.
I did confront Robert about this and said, I disagree in the first place, it just that the blog is published already ..(we had an arguiment,only a bit not to much..hmp).I totally got his point out of everything,though,cause I know this is a blog, eventually..I was just thinking,what if the message would come up into something different...than what it should be not to confused someone.
I was amazed!truly God is incredible!He answered my prayers.I've read all the comments.Wow!!Everything for me is absolutely clear and hopefully to everyone will soon read this blog as well.
And the question"Did God Really Allow Sin to Happen?"
Would not be a question anymore.
Thanks Third.
hi everyone. okay, i just came from our church service. i helped out in our 5pm and 7pm services.
ReplyDeleteam supposed to sleep na but, honestly, i regularly check this blog, particularly this page for other comments that i have to answer.
and, whaaalaaa - another comment. haha.
hey samantha, its nothing about me, its GOD. i myself is amazed on how HE reveals HIMSELF to me as i continue walking with HIM. and like Jeremiah, knowing all these things, i can't stop myself but to tell it to others also. overflowing eh!!! praise GOD for that...
i actually admire your group for coming up with this blog. its another medium to reach out people. shout out to Robert.
well, the reason why i had that long comment and really tried everything to explain it is because the blog asks a crucial question that can make or break your faith if you are not fully grounded in HIS WORD.
i think, its still good that robert wrote his thoughts here even though as he said, he's uncertain about these things. you know why? because GOD promised that if you will just ask, HE will make you understand. so robert just keep up the good job.
and to everyone, keep on asking things about GOD because that's when you will find answers. not because i said it. but because HE said it!!!
by the way, i cant get over this but your name is YUCKy. hahaha.... sorry i really have to say it here.
see you around. know GOD more and fall in love with HIM more!!!
I am afraid but I have to say I believe that God allowed sin to happen. Carl Wieland said.. A suggestiona about the question of why God allowed sin to enter creation: For Their to be a possibility of TRUE LOVE BETWEEN MAN AND GOD, mankind had to be created with the free will capable of rejecting that love. I am not trying to be odd, I just want to express what I am believing in. Third, can I ask You one thing?
ReplyDeleteDo you believe that God is in control of everything?
Ei Third, I've been attending your YCA gatherings together with my CoYUCKies..hehehe But we Haven't talked personally yet. Well that one was nice about the 50 reasons. Thanks for more info ha. I will certainly find my own copy even just the PAssion cover. I really wanna read it!!! Well see you soon and I will check the link you provided. God bless and may all of us be used by God to proclaim His Glory and faithful Love to the world!!!
ReplyDeleteI know this particular topic is very "hot" to discuss with and some of the readers or people may have a different point of view about this. Some may agree and some may strongly disagree. Let me just finish this with what Billy Graham said about this first sin of man as he once was asked why God allowed Adam and Eve to sin. He said...
"The opening chapters of the Bible tell us what happened when Adam and Eve committed the first sin -- but they don't tell us exactly why God allowed it to happen. We must be careful, therefore, not to blame God for something that is ultimately beyond our understanding.
At the same time, the Bible does tell us two very important truths about Adam and Eve's sin. First, it tells us that they were completely free to love God -- or to reject Him. In other words, they weren't robots! God's warning was clear: "You must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die" (Genesis 2:17).
But what if they had been robots -- that is, what if they didn't have any will of their own, and all they could do was love God? Then their "love" for God wouldn't have been love at all -- because love always involves a choice or a decision on our part. God took a great risk in creating them with a free will -- but only then could their love for Him be real.
The other truth the Bible tells us, however, is that while sin's consequences were great -- God's love is even greater. The proof is that He sent His only Son into the world so we could have our sins forgiven. Have you turned to Jesus Christ for the forgiveness and new life you need?"
hey robert. i'll look for you on the 19th ayt!
ReplyDeleteam with billy graham on what he said! and i think that's what i have been explaining. haha. you should have posted this first.
hey me,
with all the discussions we have here your question is a tricky one. you asked in the context of "everything" right? and if i say yes, then you would say GOD controlled man to sin. and if i say no, i will end up belittling GOD's power.
sorry, but i wont easily take your question as a yes or no question and i will try to explain first.
here
you see, GOD loves us so much that HE has given us freedom to decide on our own lives. And HE is so powerful that even we use our freedom to go against HIM, HE can still be in control of doing great things in our lifes if we, by virtue of our freedom, decide to go back to HIS love!
and to give you a straight yes or no answer to your question,
Do you believe that God is in control of everything?
YES!
HE is in control of everything, including HIS decision to give us freedom, HIS decision to love us unconditionally and HIS decision to show HIMSELF powerful in our wickedness.
know GOD more!!!! whooohoooo
ey Third gusto ko sana pumunta sa YCA interfellowship. KAso I have duty on sunday night 8pm to be exact. I will only be able to go our church in the morning after my duty on saturday night so I really need to have rest. I'm hoping that we can talk personally some time without any disturbances..hehehe But I will pray for the victory of that fellowship and more young people would discover the love of God through Christ!!!!
ReplyDeletesure man. lets hang out one time, ill introduce you with other YCA leaders. i'll see you when i see you.
ReplyDeleteHi, Here I am again! =) I've been checking this blog from time to time to see if there's new. Well For me I believe that God is in conrol of everything that is why I believe that it was part of God's plan to allow sin to enter His creation. If it was not allowed by God to happen the sin, He would have removed the tree of knowledge of bad and good or have destroyed satan at the first place before it infected man.
ReplyDeleteGod let the sin to enter not only to reveal His glory but also to establish TRUE LOVE between God and mankind. Like if "plan A" won't work there should always be a "plan B" and that plan B is the Glory of God and His Love, JESUS CHRIST (like what Third said). We both know that GOD really hates sin so much that would cost us death if we continue sinning.
He let sin to happen but did not tolerate it. It has been said many times in the bible as to what God did to those people who sinned and broke His law. Like what He did to Adam and Eve when they fell, He cursed them..
Genesis 3:16-19:
16 To the woman he said,
"I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing;
with pain you will give birth to children.
Your desire will be for your husband,
and he will rule over you."
17 To Adam he said, "Because you listened to your wife and ate from the tree about which I commanded you, 'You must not eat of it,'
"Cursed is the ground because of you;
through painful toil you will eat of it
all the days of your life.
18 It will produce thorns and thistles for you,
and you will eat the plants of the field.
19 By the sweat of your brow
you will eat your food
until you return to the ground,
since from it you were taken;
for dust you are
and to dust you will return."
Now for all of us here on earth, we ourselves should not tolerate sin but tolerate the presence of God.
I just wanna say that I was greatly amazed by the wonders of GOD when I knew what Jesus relly did for me. HE SAVED ME!!!!
ALL GLORY TO JESUS' NAME!!!!!! -JustCallMeME!
"God let the sin to enter not only to reveal His glory but also to establish TRUE LOVE between God and mankind. Like if "plan A" won't work there should always be a "plan B" and that plan B is the Glory of God and His Love, JESUS CHRIST (like what Third said). We both know that GOD really hates sin so much that would cost us death if we continue sinning."
ReplyDeletedisclaimer: i actually dont mean it the way you mean it. sorry justcallyou-you
GOD dont need to "let sin to enter" for HIS own GLORY because HE is GLORIOUS on HIS OWN! "True love" of GOD is there even without sin. and lastly all the plans of GOD is always for HIS GLORY in HIS LOVE, not just plan B.
continue to know GOD more!!! and its gonna be exciting!!! :D
Well if that your opinion Third it's ok. I won't make anymore arguements with you regarding this and I respect your side. But for me, I will still stand on my ground. Even though we believe in the same concept about salvation and Jesus, in some ways we still have different views on other things like if God allowed sin to enter His Creation.
ReplyDeleteLets talk about it no more nad then focus on things that will benefit each other, that will make us grow more in faith!! I am not saying I know everything just to let you know I am still seeking for more about Jesus. and for now what I want is to let all the people know about Christ and His love. Godbless us all here!!
LET the glory of God fall on us!!!
God Loves sinners the most and the lost for He came to this world for them to be saved!!!
sure lets go out someday!!!
ReplyDeleteas long as we will have time!!
I can really feel na talagang sobrang in love ka kay God!!
So much that cannot be hidden the effect of drawing near to God!
Godbless!!!
To Just CallmeME, it has been so nice being one of our visitors and commentors here. yeah you are right it is more important to talk about things that we'll make us more alive in Christ and will make us "FULL-GROWN CHRISTIANS"
LETS BRING IT ON!!! AND BECOME FIREFIGHTERS!! STEALing souls from the fire of hell!!!!
hey me,
ReplyDeletei am excited for you!!!
we may never comprehend the fullness of GOD but what we know, that has been revealed in JESUS is more than enough to stand in awe of HIS GLORY!!!!
and oh, if youre from antipolo, join us in YCA. i will be glad to see you there.
hey robert!!! pwede magpromote??
haha...
aside from YCA, i have been working with my church, Victory. and since Victory is getting more accessible for the east side of metro, am gonna promote... haha
we have youth service in METROEAST!!!
yes, its in the
BLUE WAVE, MARQUINTON in marikina.
its on the mall's activity center, 3rd floor at 3pm this saturday!!!
yes this saturday, Oct. 18, 2008.
see you there.
Sure! ok lang magpromote ka. We'll be more than willing to give you our space!!! hehehe
ReplyDeleteA Blessed Day to Everyone!
ReplyDeleteKumusta po kayo, your ministry's name YUCK has really caught my attention.
Anyhow, gusto ko lang po sanang magbigay ng komento ukol sa blog post na 'to.
Paumanhin po dahil may kataasan ang aking naging komento, kaya minarapat ko pong gawing nalang iyong post sa aking blog.
Sana ay mapagbigyan n'yo po na magbigay ako ng link duon sa naging komento ko.
Ang aking post/comment ay nandito po sa article na to
http://messengersofchrist.blogspot.com/2008/10/kasama-ba-sa-plano-ng-diyos-na-mahulog.html
WoW!!!!
ReplyDeleteAmazing!No doubt this topic is very "HoT".
Well,I guess we all do have our own insights with this one,..differences and similarities as well, but so glad that also we have same ground and that is believing with Jesus Christ as our Lord and Saviour.I can see that we really do love God.Obviously, cause we knew HIM(arguements shows..)not completely though, to the point that we can already understand and fathom the entirety of Him(will always be a mystery as long we're still on earth)but inquisitively seeking God,is truly following HIM.
I've learned a lot from this topic and from all of you .
And I also enjoy reading every comment, well, keep it up!Thank you.
FOR GOD's GLORY!
That's right Third, Jesus is really more than enough for us to see how geat and wonderful our God is and His unfailing love for us. I glad I met you guys here. Thanks to Robert who posted this.
ReplyDeleteSorry hindi ako taga Antipolo e. Layo ako.. hehehe But still I am hoping that one day we could see each other in person!!
More Power to all of us and may we continue to grow in Jesus and proclaim His Glory forever until he take our last breath here on earth. =)
PS. Let's keep the fire burning in our hearts, fire for God and let us not let anyone or anything take it away from us!! The more we shine and let the fire burning the more people will see the love of God through us for them!!!
wow!!!
ReplyDeleteyan kasi unang pumasok sa isip ko when I saw your blog eh..haha
I also pray that more people would be interested to read your blog.
nice...keep it up!!!
Ingat..
God bless,,,